here's the emails, since there's not much else to do at this point.
just some FYI on what you're getting in to if you deal with them and end up with a problem:
snip snip: stuff about arranging the purchase, blah blah not pertinent
Me: (december)
Hi there. Perhaps you remember me - i bought two of your female ball pythons in September.
I have run into a problem - I was trying out the smaller of the females that i purchased with my breeding het albino male. He was very aggressive with her, whereas he was not with the big female, whom i suspect to be gravid by him at this point. I'm wondering how you came to the conclusion on the smaller female's gender? I became suspicious when my male who is obviously very fond of the ladies would not go near her, and then later attacked her in the way that ball pythons do (lots of shoving etc). I did what i could to verify my concern and probed both "her" (the smaller female) and the male, and they both easily probed to the same depth. I "popped" her and the results were inconclusive, but i might have seen a hemipene and perhaps some sperm?
Please get back to me on this matter. I believe there is a mistake, and would like to discuss verifying it and how to correct the issue if indeed there is one.
Thanks very much,
Jessica
"valerie" (i never know who i'm actually hearing from):
i was told by the vet that she was female if however if she proves to not be female i can make good on a proven female bt not till after breeding season as all my females are gravid the vet has been wrong once b4 bt he's been right 100's of times for me so i see it as a honest mistake on his part
me:
You guys seemed like really nice folks, so i am not at all concerned that this was intentional in any way.
How should we go about proving her actual gender?
them:
take her to the vet have them probe her i do have a few mid 07 hold back females that are pastel sibs. if ya want to trade her/him back to me otherwise after the season is over i can give ya an adlt fem
me:
If she probes male, will you reimburse me for the vet visit?
(i'm not entirely confident with our vets around here - i know more about pythons than anyone i've been able to contact - would you accept NERD's opinion if i took her there?)
them:
cannot reimburse ya for a vet visit bt if ya know kevin he will prob,probe for free and as far as im concerned kevins word is like god telling me the sex of the snake i have lots of respect for him and if it is a fem were good if not i will replace him with a proven female of my choice after the breeding season is over as i said all my fems are gravid at this time
me:
Alright, i'll let you know what happens. I'm going out of town for the holidays, but i'll get back to you shortly thereafter.
Thank you.
still me (like a week later)
Hi, how are you.
I went up to NERD today (i was surprised that they were open but it worked out). Kevin and Kara weren't there. They did have Gail Thorpe (a good friend of theirs who owns renaissance reptiles and holds keys to their facility) in, and she sexed the snake for me. I watched as she managed to coax out his hemipenes - we indeed have a male snake. There wasn't a NERD letterhead to write and sign a note on, so i took a picture of Gail with the snake and her gender diagnosis. I took several photos, too, so the identity of the snake in question can be verified, and the NERD facility is in the background to prove it was done there. Gail also invites you to write to her with any questions at [emailprotected]. I am confident that Kevin will verify that he both knows and trusts Gail if you were to write directly to him, and that if prompted he would give you the same email address for her that i just did (or at least confirm that's her in the picture i've sent).
As you can imagine, i'm a bit frustrated. I know you didn't intentionally sell me a male snake, but this snake was supposed to produce a clutch this year. I've fed him for the past four months, and at this point i have nothing (but a male normal). I'm out food, time, a female snake, and possibly a clutch of hatchlings. I know you said you'd give me a proven breeder at the end of this season, but that still leaves me unfairly short of what i paid for, as there is no chance for me to produce a second clutch this season under these circ*mstances.
A proven breeder may want to skip next season too, according to Gail. Besides not having the snake and putting my resources in to a snake that is not what i expected it to be, i've had to drive up to NH to get him sexed, and will have to drive up again to make the trade. Again, i know you didn't sell me this male on purpose, but it's not my fault, and i should not be the one to take a loss. I told Gail what you said you were willing to do, and she urged me to ask for a better deal, as she didn't believe it was fair. I am inclined to agree.
Is there perhaps something you can do to better balance my loss? Please let me know.
Thank you for your consideration,
Jessica
(this letter was sent with a photo of gail holding the snake and a sign saying "male" as proof of her opinion on the matter)
me again (they didn't respond)
Did you receive my message about the snake you sold me? Please respond. Thank you.
them:
i did, my original offer stands i offered no guarantee on the sex i told ya what was told to me by the vet so i dont think its my fault either the fact that i offered to replace with a proven fem.shows i am an honest person being a small hobby breeder and not even offering a sex guarantee. this offer is fair and far more than any other hobby breeder wold have given ya which wold have been nothing. so my offer of one female of my choice after her clutch hatches (i say this because i do not pt my eggs in an incubator i allow the mothers to do it naturally)is all i can do
me:
If that's all you can do, then that's all you can do. I disagree that it's fair, but i'm not going to push the issue. I just want a female of comparable size or a refund ( i would prefer a refund because waiting months and months for you to make good on the sale makes me feel a bit nervous).
When can i expect compensation? I paid for a female snake. You selling it to me, saying it;s female, to me, means a sex guarantee. I would not have paid 150 dollars for a male normal. I wish to recover my losses as soon as possible. Please let me know when i can.
Thanks
J
me again (after another no-response)
Can i bring the snake back this weekend for a refund?
me again (after another no-response)
Please respond to my request for a refund. Thank you
them:
my next check is jan.25th i will give ya the refund on the 26th of 150.00 we jst had a new baby and got custody of my 8 yr.old daughter so im strapped fo cash now.
me:
Congratulations on the baby.
I can wait, i think, for your hatchlings to go. I got nervous when you weren't replying to my emails right away but i don't think that i have any reason not to trust you, since you've been pretty helpful thus far.
If giving me a female later in the year is easier for you, then i can wait - please let me know as soon as you have an idea about when that will be - if i haven't heard from you by june, i'll ping you again then. I'll take care of your male and keep him fed until then. He really is a lovely snake, and I'm disappointed that he's not a female. I knew when i saw "her" that he would give me good clutches, esp. paired with a pastel or fire. It's a shame that it didn't work out.
Your big girl that you also sold me is doing very well. My harlequin het albino from NERD has been breeding her like crazy, and I think she's ovulating as she's got a slight paunch (her follicles are enormous so i'm pretty sure she's gonna go). We'll see if she sheds again - she just shed recently so if she does it again soon it's def. the post ovulation shed and i'll need to get an incubator up and running right quick. She's a total sweetheart and i love her. I'll let you know how her clutch goes *crosses fingers*.
Good luck in your snake breeding endeavors this year. I hope i wasn't too much of a pain. Talk to you again soon.
My best,
J
.... that last email i sent on jan 5. on june 5 i still hadn't heard back so i wrote to them:
me:
Hi again,
As promised, i'm contacting you about a snake i bought as a female that turned out to be a male. You said you would exchange him for me for a female after all of yours were un-gravid. They've had enough time to lay and maternally incubate if they were gravid last time we talked, so i'm hoping i can give you back your male and get the female that i initially paid for.
Please write back. At this point i'm out 150 dollars, a potential clutch and the food it takes to keep this male fed while i've got him. All I want is what I paid for: a breedable, female python.
Thank you,
Jessica
them:
As promised and I have not forgot about you you will get a proven female I will be in rome from june 6th till june 12th then medjugorje bosnia from june 12th till the 21st for vacation ill be back in n.h on the 22nd I will contact you when I get back I hope the female you did get from me got gravid and gave you some nice babies I had a fair year had quite a few slugs and was injured for the last 12 weeks with a torn achillies tendon so between physical therapy and surgury I've been busy I thaught I would have to go on vacation in a cast and crutches thank god for good doctors and therapest I will contact you as soon as I get home I may even have a virgin female that is now big enough to breed so you can get started early with her if that's what you want
me:
Thank you, enjoy your trip.
If i haven't heard from you by the 25th, i'll email you again then. Good luck and I hope you have a speedy recovery.
-Jessica
me again: on july 25 i still hadn't heard from them so i wrote again (ARG)
Hi,
I still have the male - will you be able to trade him out for me soon?
Thank you.
Jessica
them: (no response).
So i started a new thread. At this point my patience is spent, and i start getting pretty angry:
Subj: I need an answer
Seriously if i don't see some effort on your part to fix this soon, i'm going to have to post your names and business practices to the Fauna Classified (where everyone in the world checks before they make a large ball python purchase).
This is getting ridiculous.
them:
I have aug. 3rd off that's my next and last day off for awhile I have moved and will email you with my address when I get out of work tonight I actually think I'm closer to you now I live in methuen ma.
(of course, i never heard back from him. so, as you might expect, i;m pretty seriously upset at this point and i start to lose my cool)
me:
This is the end of our deal, i guess. It has gone on way too long, and your habit of putting me off until some specified later time and never getting back to me convinces me that you were never really serious about holding up your end of our bargain. Your business practices are really regrettable, and I intend to tell everyone who will listen to avoid dealing with you at all costs.
I have sold your male for 50 dollars because all he was doing was eating my rats and waiting. I can't believe how much time, energy, hope, and resources i've sunk in to this deal that you couldn't even be bothered to care about. I will post your names, location, as much as I know about your business intent, and the details of our transaction to FaunaClassified.com in order to out you as a bad business person. I hope no one else becomes your victim. This has been a really miserable experience.
I would like my money back. I already have 50 bucks, but i've lost 100 on our deal alone, not including my resources keeping your male alive while i waited for you to ignore me.
My paypal address is ___________________.org. I will be posting my thread about our transaction on Friday of next week. You have until then to try and change my mind about what I'm going to say.
regretfully,
a very dissatisfied customer
them:
I know for a fact he emailed you last week and said his next day off was august 3rd and you never emailed back to conferm for that date as far as posting please go ahead and do just that you don't know enough about us or know our new address to even make a diferance he mostly does buisness with people he has known for years as far as your money goes I will pass on your info to him when he gets home tonight it is unfortunate we did buisness with you I would appreciate if you did not email me anymore as I will take it as a sign of harrasment oh yeah one more thing you don't have is his buisness name he almost never does buisness under his own name so post away if you have that kinda time to waiste have at it
me:
He said he would get back to me with his new address that night, and i never heard from him. That was the last straw - he has been telling me "i'll get back to you at [a specific time]" for almost a year! and i'm the one who keeps having to re-start negotiations! If he were interested in helping me, this would have been fixed months and MONTHS ago.
Your poor sense of business practices are going to catch up. You can tell me to go suck a lemon, sure, because i'm one lousy customer whose money you took and didn't give a damn when she got screwed, but i can tell you that word gets around fast. Once the community realizes that you guys are shady and couldn't give a rat's ass how your customers fare after you make a sale, you're going to go down in flames and have to start trading snake skins or something.
I didn't want it to come to this. I was patient for almost 8 months before i started getting angry. I tried being diplomatic, and all i got was screwed.
Have fun with your project. I hope you get a clue what you're doing before you piss off someone who matters more than one stupid girl with her month's worth of savings spent on a snake you told her was something it wasn't.
cheers.
them: (funny how responsive they are when they're angry, but can i get them to give me what i paid for? i would be better off trying to get oil from a water faucet)
anyway -
them:
I'm sorry you only make 150.00 a month you should find a better job as far as hurting our reputation please try your best as I said b4 you really don't know enough about us to even make a dent with the buisness we do as we don't even deal with fauna or king snake our buisness is based on previous customers who are happy with our service they could give a rats ass what you have to say this is the one and only time in 20 years we have had a unhappy customer and it wasn't even our fault we were told by a vet it was a female go smear his name in fauna or king snake that was the first and last time we used him as our regular vet was out of the country and had no choice to see the other vet as he was supposed to be an exotics vet anyways as I said b4 please stop emailing me this is getting to be on the harasment/stocking line and we don't want to be harased or stocked for that matter thank you and as I suggested b4 please seek employment elsewhere you really should be making more than 150.00 a month maybe you should go haras your boss for a raise
me:
You really are thick. 150 savings does not mean i make 150 a month - that means that's all i had left after i paid off my basic expenses - and you stole it.
You can talk all you want about how it doesn't matter that you screwed me - all it means is that you have no conscience and that you think what you did is okay.
it sickens me.
I'm not "stocking" anyone (it's "stalking" btw). I'm trying to get what i paid for - or a refund. If i have to speak to a lawyer to get it done, i suppose i will.
The End.
That last message i sent 11 days ago and of course there has been no response - or refund - or snake of any kind. They don't care if i post about it on fauna? okay. They think i'm just a sucker because i don't have their info and they don't care what the internet thinks of how they act? that's fine too.
That's the thing, DalenVal, the internet has a LOT of information in it, and ball python sellers and traders don't like those people who can't keep their word or own up to their mistakes. You can act like it;s not your problem and i'm just some stupid kid who doesn't matter, but guess what - it IS your problem, and i'm not powerless. I'm not just going to sit and take it.
I want my refund.
